Friday, November 3, 2017

Transcript of Heather Ann Tucci-Jarraf Initial Hearing
Eastern District of Tenneseee
August 24, 2017


Plaintiff,                                                   )
vs.                                                           ) Case No.: 3:17-CR-82
Defendant.                                               )


August 24, 2017
2:35 p.m. to 3:00 p.m.


                                                               ANNE-MARIE SVOLTO, ESQUIRE
                                                               Assistant United States Attorney United States Department of Justice
                                                               Office of the United States Attorney
                                                               800 Market Street
                                                               Suite 211
                                                               Knoxville, Tennessee 37902

                                                              105 Orchard Lane
                                                              Oak Ridge, Tennessee 37830

ALSO PRESENT:                                  FRANCIS L. LLOYD, JR., ESQUIRE
                                                               Law Office of Francis L. Lloyd, Jr. 9111 Cross Park Drive
                                                               Suite D-200
                                                               Knoxville, Tennessee 37923


Rebekah M. Lockwood, RPR, CRR Official Court Reporter
(865) 210-6698
P.O. Box 1823 Knoxville, Tennessee 37901-1823

(Call to Order of the Court)

THE COURTROOM DEPUTY: Case No. 3:17-CR-82, United States of America versus Heather Ann Tucci-Jarraf. Here on behalf of the defendant is Francis Lloyd. Is counsel for the defendant present and ready to proceed?

MR. LLOYD: Ready to proceed, Your Honor, but I'm not yet counsel for this defendant.

THE COURT: Thank you.

THE COURTROOM DEPUTY: Here on behalf of the government is an Anne-Marie Svolto and Cynthia Davidson. Is counsel for the government present and ready to proceed?

MS. SVOLTO: Yes, Your Honor.

THE COURT: Good afternoon, counsel, Ms. -- hold on a minute. I want to make sure I say your name correctly. Tucci-Jarraf, Jarraf?

How do you pronounce your last name?

THE DEFENDANT: I'm here as special appearance, and you spell it -- or sound it out Tucci-Jarraf.

THE COURT: Tucci-Jarraf. I was close. This proceeding is going to be the initial appearance and the arraignment hearing for you with regard to an indictment which was filed on July 18th this year by the grand jury for the Eastern District of Tennessee.

The indictment brings several counts or charges. And the purpose of this proceeding today is to do several things: Discuss with you whether or not you're going to be represented by counsel in this matter, whether or not you have received the indictment, whether you've had a chance to review the
indictment, and whether you understand the charges that have been brought against you in this case.

The Court is going to review your rights with you, and then we're going to discuss the schedule that is in place for this case, which was established during the preliminary hearings regarding the codefendant, Mr. Beane.

Before we can begin with any of that, the Court is required to ask you some questions just to make sure that you're not going to have any difficulty hearing and understanding what we're doing in court today.

These questions need to be answered under oath or affirmation. Would you please stand and raise your right hand to be sworn.

MR. LLOYD: Your Honor, may I -- may I be heard a moment on behalf of this accused individual?

THE COURT: Yes. Do you want to go come to the podium, so we can get you on the sound machine?
You can -- you can be -- do you want to come up with Counsel?


MR. LLOYD: I take it a record is being made of this -- of this proceeding?

THE COURT: Everything we're saying is being recorded, as we always do at every hearing.

MR. LLOYD: Yes, Your Honor.

This accused person has previously filed, I believe, in the District Court for the District of Columbia a motion challenging jurisdiction, which I have not seen.

That was while this accused individual was represented or putatively represented by other counsel.
And if I understand her position correctly, she is -- she is insisting that the questions of jurisdiction be
addressed first before any plea be entered and before any other action is taken. Is that correct?

THE DEFENDANT: If I might address Your Honor.

In D.C., he is correct, he stated true, accurate, and complete that I did challenge jurisdiction.

I gave my duly sworn declaration of identification, authority,  jurisdiction, addendum of law, and it was completely ignored in D.C., saying that they were going to move forward on identification  hearing.

However, with the challenge to jurisdiction and authority, no identification could be heard, no  identification hearing could be heard.

At that time, that's when the federal defender was assigned with my objection, that he was assigned, and he tried to establish with the court per constitution that I supposedly had the right to have -- you know, to defend myself.

My whole point is, is that there was no -- there was a solid and due challenge to whether or not the court had jurisdiction and authority to even hear the case or to be presented with the case. And the prosecution refused to present any response to that.

And all of that was actually filed into this court case as well in preparation for my appearance here by special appearance, and I haven't received any kind of response whatsoever.

It was very difficult because I was transferred -- I was held without any kind of arraignment or anything else for almost 30 days. So this is the first time that I've arrived, and I've only arrived a couple hours ago. I've only just now spoken with Mr. Lloyd and explained to him I am maintaining
that the state has no jurisdiction and authority to even bring these charges against me, and that this

Court does not have the authority and jurisdiction to even hear this case.

THE COURT: So you want to have a jurisdiction hearing?


THE COURT: All right. Well, you certainly can have a jurisdiction hearing.

We just -- a few things that we need to make sure that are on the record, and that is that we've
complied with the rule -- the rules for initial appearance.

If you want to reserve entry of a plea and not do that today, that's fine.

THE DEFENDANT: I would -- at this -- at this point, due to the fact it's still -- there is no jurisdiction authority to even ask that question, but I do reserve all my rights as it was filed into this case to make any kind of plea, if I choose to after the fact, after we've gone through jurisdiction and --


THE DEFENDANT: -- and authority.

THE COURT: That's fine.

I'm not going to say you have to enter a plea today.


THE COURT: I would like to be able to note on -- Iknow you had a initial appearance in Washington.
We're required to do one here.


THE COURT: I would like to be able to note for our records that you have received the indictment in this case, you've had a chance to read the indictment, and that you understand the charges that have been brought against the person named in the indictment, whether it's you or not.

THE DEFENDANT: Mr. -- Mr. Lloyd handed me a copy here when we just arrived. We've had a few minutes to go over -- I'm not sure exactly how long we had, maybe ten minutes to be able to go over just the initial talk.

I have not read the indictment since we've been sitting here, so I make that as part of the public record.

THE COURT: All right. Let me ask you this question then. Do you -- are you going to want to ask the Court to appoint Mr. Lloyd as defense counsel in this case?

THE DEFENDANT: I reserve the right to make that decision after we've made a determination on whether this  Court has jurisdiction.

THE COURT: So you don't want a lawyer to represent you on a jurisdictional hearing?

THE DEFENDANT: What I would like to do is, I'm going to be presenting as myself in this hearing.
I am very familiar -- I have a background, which I'm sure, if you have the -- read the D.C. hearings, has been established that I'm competent and conscious to be able to present as myself.

THE COURT: Okay. So you want to represent yourself?


THE COURT: All right.

THE DEFENDANT: I will -- I am representing as self, yes.

THE COURT: Okay. You're representing as self. So you don't want the Court to appoint legal counsel for you?

THE DEFENDANT: I will reserve at this time until we have the matter, but for the hearing, the purpose of jurisdiction, I am going to actually be hiring him as a private consultant to be able to assist me to prepare for the jurisdiction hearing.

THE COURT: Okay. So you're going to retain -- you're going to retain Mr. Lloyd.

THE DEFENDANT: Yes, that's the intention.

MR. LLOYD: Your Honor, we have not reached any agreement about retaining --

THE DEFENDANT: No, not yet.

THE COURT: I understand.

THE DEFENDANT: We've only had a few minutes --

THE COURT: I'm just trying to find out what we can do today.

THE DEFENDANT: I have my teams that are here.

THE COURT: But I need to at least make sure you're here --


THE COURT: -- because of this indictment, that you've at least received the indictment. Although you say you haven't read it, we can agree you've received it?


THE COURT: You are talking with Mr. Lloyd, who's a lawyer?


THE COURT: And you're going to reserve entry of a plea today?


THE COURT: Mr. Lloyd can get a copy of the schedule in this case, and so he'll have that, because your -- this case is set for trial --


THE COURT: There's a schedule.

THE DEFENDANT: -- do not know, Your Honor. I haven't received any information.

I didn't even know we were having an arraignment today. I've arrived just now from
Georgia. My teams are actually here, my legal teams, and we just didn't know that there was a hearing today. So we have a court stenographer and everything to come in and make a true
and accurate record.

THE COURT: So you are asking the Court to not take any other action today, but to schedule a jurisdiction hearing and initial appearance for you when, next week? When -- how -- when will you be ready for your initial appearance --

THE DEFENDANT: Well, first --

THE COURT: -- to be concluded?

THE DEFENDANT: Yes. First, Mr. Lloyd and I would have to come to some agreement, as far as the private consultant and fees and et cetera. So I have to be able to reach my teams. My teams are here.

I don't have any -- so I guess I would inquire at this time whether the Court is open to letting me meet with my teams and Mr. Lloyd.

That was the biggest issue in D.C. was I didn't have access to Mr. Bos, who is the federal defender --

THE COURT: You want to ask the Court to release you?

THE DEFENDANT: To release me, but I will stay in this area. And I --

THE COURT: All right. I can't take up --

THE DEFENDANT: My teams have my passport.

THE COURT: I can't take up that issue until we've completed the initial appearance and arraignment.


THE COURT: Hold on a minute. You want to talk to her for a minute? I need to check on the schedule. Ms. Cynthia Davidson, what's your calendar Monday?

MS. SVOLTO: We're available Monday, Your Honor, any time.

MS. DAVIDSON: I would ask, are we going to be required to respond -- Your Honor, are we going to be required to respond to whatever document --


MS. DAVIDSON: Oh, okay.

THE COURT: No. This is Magistrate Judge Shirley's case. He needs to have a status conference with all the parties. He needs to find out what the issues are.

MS. DAVIDSON: We're available all day.

THE COURT: All right. Okay.

All right. Mr. Lloyd, any comment on that?

THE DEFENDANT: Your Honor, I just have one question for him, regarding today's hearing to see about proceeding, just for -- if I might have two minutes.

THE COURT: Yeah. Okay. Just have a couple of minutes, because --


THE COURT: -- we're on a schedule, and we're going to stay on it.


Your Honor, may we approach, please?


THE DEFENDANT:  May we approach?


THE DEFENDANT: We believe that we'll go ahead and just enter a plea today and handle the matter of jurisdiction later.


THE DEFENDANT: Reserve that right.

THE COURT: Okay. Well, let's proceed on with the initial appearance. This will just take a few minutes.

THE DEFENDANT: That's fine. Thank you.

MR. LLOYD: Your Honor, I'm sorry, I didn't hear the Court's last question.

THE COURT: I wanted to know how you wanted to proceed today. But the defendant has indicated she wants to proceed with the initial appearance and arraignment.

MR. LLOYD: Yes, Your Honor.


MR. LLOYD: And I thought Your Honor was asking about another date on which to hear something.

THE COURT: Well, I'll have Judge Shirley do that then. If we can get through this initial appearance and arraignment, I'll try to set a -- I will try to set that for Judge Shirley. But I really need to get through this first.

MR. LLOYD: Understood, Your Honor.

THE COURT: All right.

MR. LLOYD: And this -- this defendant does wish the Court to understand that by entering into a plea of not guilty, she will not be waiving her right to challenge jurisdiction.

THE COURT: All right. That's fine. Okay. Your full name, please.

THE DEFENDANT: Heather Ann Tucci-Jarraf.

THE COURT: What? What? You didn't get finished? I understood that you were answering these questions under affirmation to tell the truth. Is that correct?

Or do you need to be sworn in again?

THE DEFENDANT: I swear to speak true, accurate, and complete.

THE COURT: All right. Thank you.


THE COURT: Your full name, please?

THE DEFENDANT: Heather Ann Tucci-Jarraf.

THE COURT: Okay. And your age, please?

THE DEFENDANT: Forty-five.

THE COURT: And how far did you go in school, please?

THE DEFENDANT: Juris doctorate.

THE COURT: Are you having any difficulty reading or writing today for any reason?


THE COURT: Are you taking any medications today?


THE COURT: Are there any medications you think you should be taking that you're not taking?


THE COURT: I know you've conferred with Mr. Lloyd, who is an attorney in this area. Are you having any problems communicating with him today for any reason?


I'd just like to make clear, though, he's here until we can reach some agreement for -- for representation on -- for this hearing only.

THE COURT: All right. I've noted that in the record --


THE COURT: -- that he is not retained. He is just here in an advisory capacity today.

THE DEFENDANT: Thank you, sir.

THE COURT: It appears you've been able to hear and understand everything the Court has said. Is that correct?

THE DEFENDANT: That's correct.

THE COURT: All right. Very well.

The Court finds that the defendant is competent to proceed in this matter today. And based on that finding, the Court is going to review with the defendant her rights in this matter.

As I stated, the indictment brings certain charges against you.

With regard to those charges, you do have the right to remain silent.

That is your Fifth Amendment right againstself-incrimination.

That means you do not have to make  any statements to anyone about this case, and you don't have to
answer any questions from anyone about this case.

However, if you decide you want to waive or give up your right to remain silent and you decide to make statements, or answer questions about the charges that have been  brought against you, anything you say could be used against you in court.

Do you understand that?


THE COURT: You also have the right to be represented by a lawyer in this case.

You have the right to hire an attorney of your own choosing.

If you cannot afford to hire an attorney and you wish the Court to appoint the lawyer for you, you have the right to make that application to the Court.

Do you understand that as well?


THE COURT: If you have an attorney representing you in this case, you will have the right to have that lawyer with you whenever you are questioned by law enforcement authorities about this case.

You will have the right to have your lawyer with you whenever you are in court. And you'll have the right to meet with your lawyer to discuss this case with your lawyer before you appear in  court

Do you understand all of these rights?

THE DEFENDANT: I do. Thank you.

THE COURT: Do you have any questions you want to ask the Court about these rights I've just gone over before we go any further today?

THE DEFENDANT: I just ask that the -- to clarify, the Court clarify that they are acknowledging my -- my challenge to jurisdiction and authority, so therefore, my rights regarding that matter are still reserved?

THE COURT: I will acknowledge that. And I'm going to ask the deputy clerk to specifically put in the minutes that you asserted a right to challenge jurisdiction over your  person
in this court.


THE COURT: All right. Now, also with regard to representation of counsel, I assume we're reserving that decision at this time?

THE DEFENDANT: I am, sir, until I can speak to Mr. Lloyd at greater length.



THE COURT: And you have the indictment, but you have not had a chance to review the indictment?

THE DEFENDANT: I actually am -- have looked through it just briefly, Your Honor. It looks to be the same one that was on PACER in this case, the one that I have filed an actual cancelation of the true bill to begin with.

So I am aware and I believe it's the one that I read if -- unless the state wants to say that they've changed it since they filed it originally.

THE COURT: Okay. So you're aware of the contents?


THE COURT: All right. Very well then.

Is the government -- the same indictment filed in D.C., correct, or --

MS. SVOLTO: It is.

THE COURT: -- it was presented in D.C.?

What is the government's position regarding range of penalty under these charges, please?

MS. SVOLTO: The range of penalty, Ms. Tucci-Jarraf, if convicted, would face a maximum term of 20 years imprisonment, a fine of $500,000 or twice the value of the property involved in the financial transaction, and a three-year maximum term of supervised release.

THE COURT: All right. And you probably heard that same statement in Washington, D.C., but did you --

THE DEFENDANT: No, I did not.

THE COURT: Did you hear that statement as made by the government?

THE DEFENDANT: I've heard it now from -- I'm sorry, I don't remember her name. But I have heard it from the state.

Thank you.


Very well.

The Court finds that the defendant has received a copy of the indictment.

She's familiar and understands the contents therewith. And the government has formally advised her as to its position regarding the potential range of penalty in this matter.

All right. Based on those findings, then, we've come to the point in the proceeding where I would ask you if you would like to enter a plea.

And would you like to enter a plea at this time?

THE DEFENDANT: I will enter a plea of not guilty at this time, yet still reserving and asking the Court to acknowledge, yet again, my challenge to jurisdiction and authority of this Court to hear this matter.

THE COURT: Very well.

The Court is going to accept and enter the not-guilty plea on behalf of the defendant reserving the defendant's right to still contest  jurisdiction of this Court.

Based on the entry of the not-guilty plea, these charges are going to join with the charges of the codefendant and proceed according to the scheduling order that has been entered in this case.

And in case you don't have a copy of it, I will just advise you that the order that was entered on July 27th sets a trial date in this case of October 3.

And, of course, Mr. Lloyd, if you want to get a copy of that before you leave, but the current trial date in this case is October 3 before District Judge Varlan.

There is a pretrial conference set on September 13th at 9:00 o'clock before Judge Shirley. September -- September 13th at 9:00 o'clock.

And should it become -- should it become -- should it become your intention to file additional motions, the  deadline for filing motions actually is today.

Mr. Lloyd, you might want to ask your client if she wants to move for an extension of time to file motions.

MR. LLOYD: Your Honor, I --

THE COURT: I'm sorry, not your client.

Do you want the Court to give you another week to cover this -- for filing of motions to get you through what is going to be a hearing with Judge Shirley next week?


I haven't received any discovery, so I'm not a -- at a disadvantage here.

Like I said, I've been transferred around for four weeks without  any arraignment whatsoever and no discovery and no access to the state file.

So I'm going to at this time respectfully ask that the Court set that date out so that I might have the ability to receive discovery and make any motions in a timely manner.

THE COURT: Okay. The Court is going to set a new motion filing deadline for this person of September the 8th.


THE COURT: And then any -- that can be taken -- if there's more dead -- if deadlines need to be moved, they can be taken up with Judge Shirley at pretrial conference on the 13th. Right? Right.

THE DEFENDANT: Sorry, Your Honor. Did you say September 8th?





THE COURT: All right. It's the Court's understanding there was no detention hearing in D.C.
Is the government asking for detention of this defendant?

MS. SVOLTO: We are, Your Honor, based on risk of flight.


All right. The government is asking for you to be detained pending further proceedings in
this case.

Are you going to be requesting a detention hearing, that is to say a hearing to request release?


I'm requesting release on personal recognizance, based on the fact there's lack of history of criminal activity. I've never -- this is a first-time charge, and the actual filings establish that, if
anything, I am -- I have a history of stopping money laundering, let alone never committing it, so --

THE COURT: So you want to have a hearing?


THE COURT: Okay. How long does the government need to get ready for that? Can you do it -- get ready by Monday or Tuesday?

MS. SVOLTO: Yes. We need three days.

THE COURT: Okay. The government is entitled to a certain minimum time before they have that hearing. I was going to try to schedule something in this case on Monday at 1:30 with Judge Shirley.

THE DEFENDANT: I do have a request, Your Honor.

I have no -- no argument to having electronic monitoring or anything like that with the order. I've never had a flight or a failure to appear in any court matter.

I am expecting to stay here until this matter is resolved.

I do have primary residence in Boston, Mass -- or Lynn, Massachusetts with four children and a husband. I have significant ties to the U.S. I'm not going anywhere, as this is a matter of public interest for everyone involved, so --

THE COURT: Well, that is a decision that Judge Shirley will make. This is his case.


THE COURT: And that's why I want to get you in front of him as soon as possible. Which would be -- I don't know. Can y'all be ready Monday afternoon or do you need Tuesday?

MS. SVOLTO: Tuesday would be better, Your Honor.

THE COURT: Let me see what he has. That's also going to be a -- generally a status conference. He will want to talk to you also about representation.

THE DEFENDANT: I'm sure. Thank you.

THE COURT: He has a 9:00 and a 2:30.

What's the 4 2:30?

MS. DAVIDSON: Codefendant.


MS. DAVIDSON: It's the codefendant.

THE COURT: At 2:30?

MS. DAVIDSON: We were hoping to keep them apart, but --

THE COURT: Do you want to do 1:30 or 10:30 on Tuesday?

MS. SVOLTO: 10:30 is fine, Your Honor.

THE COURT: Let's see if Mr. Lloyd would be available.

MR. LLOYD: Is that 10:30 on the 29th, Your Honor?

THE COURT: Yes, sir.

MR. LLOYD: Yes, sir, that's fine.

THE COURT: All right. I appreciate you making accommodations for the Court, Mr. Lloyd.

I know it's on short notice for your schedule.

All right. Very well then.

The Court is going to set a status conference, detention hearing. And at that time, there will be a hearing set on this jurisdictional question, I believe.

But in any event, 10:30 on Tuesday morning. In the meantime, the Court is going to enter the
appropriate order of detention in this case, and this  defendant will remain in custody pending the hearing on Tuesday.

Anything else from the government today on this matter?

MS. SVOLTO: No. Thank you, Your Honor.


Anything else?

THE DEFENDANT: I just need to make sure Mr. Lloyd has contact numbers for my teams, and I'm --

THE COURT: Okay. Well, he can come downstairs and talk to you more, I believe.

THE DEFENDANT: Come downstairs. Thank you.

THE COURT: Can he? Okay. All right.

He's going to take -- Judge Shirley will take that up with them. You hold onto it. Mr. Lloyd, will you hold onto that waiver of counsel in case she decides to go that route?

THE DEFENDANT: We have it.

MR. LLOYD: Ms. Tucci has it, Your Honor.

THE COURT: Okay. Thank you. Appreciate it. Thanks for being here, Mr. Lloyd. I appreciate it.

MR. LLOYD: Yes, Your Honor.

THE COURT: Thank you.

THE COURTROOM DEPUTY: All rise. This honorable court stands adjourned.
(Proceedings adjourned.)


I, Rebekah M. Lockwood, RPR, CRR, do hereby certify that I was authorized to and did stenographically transcribe the foregoing electronically recorded proceedings; and that  the
foregoing pages constitute a true and complete  computer-aided transcription of my original stenographic notes to the best of my knowledge, skill, and ability.

I further certify that I am not a relative, employee, attorney, or counsel of any of the parties, nor am I a relative or employee of any of the parties' attorney or counsel connected with the action, nor am I financially interested in the action.

IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand at Knoxville, Knox County, Tennessee this 2nd day of November, 17 2017.

REBEKAH M. LOCKWOOD, RPR, CRR Official Court Reporter United States District Court Eastern District of Tennessee